Women We Admire is a community filled with incredible women leaders and professionals who have all found success in their respective fields. Many of them are also amazing working mothers who have shown that motherhood is not a barrier to professional growth, but rather a strength and motivating force behind their success. Each member of our community brings a unique perspective and expertise to the table, and we are proud to showcase their accomplishments. In this year's Mother's Day Campaign, we will hear from our members about what they find to be the most rewarding part of being a working mother.



Terah Crews
CEO, Reup Education
Industry: Technology, Education

“Knowing my daughter is watching me and that through me she will see a world of possibilities that I never even could have imagined growing up. Wherever and whenever possible I bring my 1 year old daughter along.”




Lindie Gerber
Executive Creative Director, Movable Ink
Industry: Technology

“The ability to model a strong work ethic while providing for my family and remaining present as a parent; explaining my work, thinking, and processes to my young daughter and watching how she interprets it or even offers her own unique perspective has been incredibly rewarding. Over the course of my career, I have had the honor of working with presidents, even kings, and some of the most prolific thinkers while working on many of the world's largest brands, but above all, the greatest honor has been being a mother.”



Jennifer Cozier
SVP Product, CrossBorder Solutions
Industry: Technology

“I am proud of being able to provide for our family and show our child that successful STEM careers are possible regardless of gender. I also am proud to have chosen a career that my mother's generation never had as a possibility. Options were limited for her generation and the idea of having a family and a career were out of reach for most.”



Stephany Foster
SVP and Head of Global HR, QIAGEN
Industry: Biotech, Life Sciences

“Seeing both of my children realize that anything is possible - in their world they don't see any glass ceiling. One of my proudest moments was when my son said ‘when I grow up I want to marry someone as successful as my mom.’

To truly be a successful working mother - I think it is critical to accept you can't do it all and know your kids will be ok. I tend to start work quite early with the goal that most days I can be home for dinner or drive them to practice but when I can't make it - my village steps in from my husband, to my parents, to my best friends and its knowing I have this village that makes it all possible. On the other hand, it is this ability to have this balance (most days) and get out of work to also spend time with the kids that is important for my own mental health.”



Becky Consolvo
VP, People & Culture, 9Box
Industry: Technology

“One of the most rewarding aspects of being a successful working mother is spending my day making a significant impact in the workforce, and then heading home to share those wins with my family. Being a mother is such an important part of my identity and it is something that continues to guide me as a beacon throughout each of my interactions at work. Every step/risk I take is to make my children proud of their mom and all she does in the technology space.

Being a mother makes me a better leader. The dedication, the discipline, the details - all of these factors play into both leading roles in my life. I'm so honored to have the role I do in the workplace and at home, and I'm so thankful our little ones continue to love and push me to be the best leader possible day in and day out.”



Erin Norberg
Director of National Sales, Instacart
Industry: Technology

“It's rewarding to see my kids' interest in my work. At home, I'm mom, but at work, I am a different character in their eyes. They get to see first-hand, my drive for my career, and how much I truly love what I do. Additionally, it's rewarding to help them develop work ethic early on, and to show them how their work ethic directly impacts their success.

I love to have open conversations with my kids about what type of career they envision for their future. While this is likely to change, I like to encourage them to think big and to know that is okay to reinvent themselves at any point in their career. Also, to challenge them to try new things that push them outside of their comfort zones and to accept that at times they will fail, but that those are the moments where they will learn the most.”



Jennifer Hicks
Managing Director, Alvarez & Marsal
Industry: Financial Services

“Being a working mother certainly has its challenges, and some years, especially the early years, are harder than others. Looking back on those years and celebrating my grit and determination to push through the hard is incredibly rewarding. There were many times I could have chosen a different path, but I'm so proud of all I've accomplished while also raising two beautiful daughters.”



Wendy Strgar
CEO, Good Clean Love and Vaginal Biome Science
Industry: Entrepreneurship, Healthcare

“Doing something that you love and contributing to the good in life is a powerful lesson for your children. It also has helped me to separate myself from my role as mother. Or maybe better put it has helped me to learn to mother myself as well. In the same way that we support our kids through the successes and failures of their life experience, having my own work lets them witness how I have learned to show up for and support myself.

As the founder of a love company and mother to four children I believe that love and work are the same things. When we see our work as a form of service whether for the kids or your occupation there is a way that the dichotomy of being never enough for either our professional or personal life resolves. Our days are just filled with acts of service.”



Julie Henson
Chief Client Officer, Taft Law
Industry: Legal

“Being able to show my children that regardless of how successful I am, they are still my first priority. You can be a badass woman in a very intense and high-pressure industry while still being present, available and engaged with your family. We work hard and play hard!”



Jessica Miller
Director of Academics, Workforce Opportunity Services
Industry: Education, Non-profit

“As a successful working mother, my greatest satisfaction comes from being a source of inspiration for my two young daughters, demonstrating that they have the capability and should strive towards achieving anything they aspire to. There are no boundaries to what they can achieve.”



Bethany Allee
SVP, Marketing & Education, PDI Technologies
Industry: Technology

“The best part of being a working mom is helping my children access new experiences and people. My professional role has exposure to all aspects of business, so my kids have the opportunity to learn about almost every facet of what it takes to run a successful business and have a happy life.

Being a working parent has moments that feel like complete chaos, but in the end, my happy kids are worth dealing with any amount of chaos. They're fantastic humans who inspire me to be the best version of myself.”



Alma Robinson
Executive Director, California Lawyers for the Arts
Industry: Arts Services

“As a working mother, having children forced me to carve out a meaningful work-life balance for my time. I'd put their performances and athletic events into my daily calendar alongside work meetings, and make sure I was cheering them on. As a result of having children and now two grandchildren, my horizon is much broader than the demands of my job and my profession. I am also concerned about the future beyond my tenure, the health of our communities, and the sustainability of our planet.

My four children, who all are working in service to others, continue to inform me about current trends and inspire me to stay on top of my game.”



Tracy Pettingill
Director, Member Care and Operations, AAA Mountain West Group
Industry: Technology

“As a single mother for the first ten years of my career until I met my wonderful husband, I have the opportunity to teach my children by example. They have learned a great work ethic and how perseverance and dedication can be rewarding for your career.

This year we are excited to welcome our first grandchild. I am overjoyed that I will be able to watch as my son passes on what he learned growing up.”



Tracy Irvine
Senior Counsel & Head of the Advertising, Marketing & Promotions Center of Excellence, VF Outdoor, LLC
Industry: Fashion

“Seeing my two year old watch me go to work everyday and then watching her imitate me typing on the computer makes me smile. It makes me feel like I might be paving the way for her to understand that she can do whatever she wants to do with her life and that hard work is important in all aspects of your life.”



Jan E. Patterson, MD, MS
Professor of Medicine & Associate Dean Lifelong Learning, Long School of Medicine, UT Health San Antonio
Industry: Healthcare, Education

“The joy of raising two remarkable young men and having the blessing of meaningful work.”




Audra Brehm
Owner and CEO, Brehm Media
Industry: Technology

“The look my two girls get when they tell people their mom owns her own business. They have such pride that I can do that. When I have hard days balancing motherhood and owning a business they are the ones to constantly uplift me. My youngest recently told me she wants to be me when she grows up and my oldest always tells me she wants to take over the business and be like me as well.

Life as a working mom is hard and there are times that it feels like you are failing at one of them. I constantly have to remind myself that I was Audra before I was ever a mom and I had hopes and dreams that I want my daughters to have and achieve. It is ok to be vulnerable and successful and to remember that motherhood doesn’t define us, it just adds to our purpose.”



Tracy Fuerst
Vice President Corporate Communications and PR, Magna
Industry: Mobility

“The most rewarding aspect is proving that you can have a career and, in my case, contribute to a major corporation and raise happy, well-adjusted kids.

I bring an unrelenting commitment to always be better and do better to my 28-year marriage, my rewarding career, and raising our three thriving young adult children.”



Tiffany Mattingly
Vice President, Clinical Strategies, The Health Collaborative
Industry: Healthcare

“I love being a mother and I love working. I consider myself blessed to have the opportunity to do both simultaneously. I take pride in sharing by example with my four boys the prosperity (income and happiness) that balancing life offers. What is most rewarding to me is that my boys see me operate in many roles beyond their mother, fostering their growth into well-rounded, productive, unique individuals who will have a lasting impact on the people around them.”



Jessica Lawrence-Vaca
Vice President, Government Affairs, SOLV Energy
Industry: Renewable Energy Policy

“I love the example I'm setting for my boys. Moms can be executives and work to solve big problems like climate change, but are also there to read them books and tuck them in at night.

I'm launching an interview series called Moms in Renewables that I'm sharing via LinkedIn with women across my industry to discuss the challenges of being a working mom. The mental load is universal and we all have struggles, but the biggest thing I'm finding is we all need to share our stories more so we feel less alone.”



Whitney Hood Robinson
Director of Finance, Dakota Consulting, Inc.
Industry: Technology

“Seeing your work ethic in your children has been very rewarding. When I was younger I kept a lot of my struggles to myself, especially as a single mother. While I was in cancer treatment I got a new perspective of the importance of life and what I wanted my now adult children to consider important to them. Seeing their personal and professional growth now is amazing for me.”



Amy M. Streater
Director of Operations & HR Manager, SOCOTEC Advisory, LLC
Industry: Litigation Consulting

“Being a role model for my daughter and teaching her how to succeed through hard work and integrity filled performance. I have witnessed her exhibiting a hard work ethic and strong desire to be in leadership roles as she has grown throughout her high school career and jobs along the way. I know that this will only continue as she embarks on the next chapter of her journey at OK State University this Fall.

Balancing work and home life is not an easy task for any mother. As a single mother it is especially challenging at times, but I know that the end result is worth all of the effort and accomplishments along the way.”



Lisa McLin
Global Vice President Alliances & Channel Chief, Unisys
Industry: Technology

“I love sharing my passion for my career with my two boys, talking about new adventures and opportunities throughout my career as well as what I've learned and how I can support them as they think about what they would love to do.”



Wendy Zelond
SVP Finance, Utilities, Washington Gas
Industry: Energy

“I get to experience the best of both worlds, personally and professionally. I get to experience the joy of unconditional love for my son, watching him grow and learn while also getting to achieve professionally more than I could have ever imagined. I am lucky to have the opportunity to experience both, and yes, even on the bad days.

Being a mother has made me a better leader. Period.”



Shally Stanley
SVP, Professional Services Global Delivery, Salesforce
Industry: Technology

“I've always known that I am a better mother because I've had the opportunity to pursue my career ambitions while raising our 4 boys. Now that they are grown, I've come to appreciate 2 things that happened because I am a driven, accomplished working mother. My children are independent and know they are completely capable of figuring things out. While I felt guilty for not being able to be there to solve problems for them, I am now proud of the life skills they've developed along the way. My boys' view of a family is based on working parents and active children doing their best to meet the challenges of day to day life. It is a team effort and it is not perfect.”



Denise Sena
Vice President of Global Supply Chain, Celulairty
Industry: Life Science

“Knowing that my son has witnessed my climb up the ladder, through hard work, perseverance, and devotion to a field that I love.

The most rewarding moments? It's seeing him learn to follow his heart and his passion, and the value of working towards his purpose. He makes me incredibly proud.”



Brittney White
Director of Build To Rent, Mynd Management
Industry: Real Estate

“Getting to be a positive role model and representation of what women are capable of for my daughter. Demonstrating that working women truly can have it all with hard work and dedication is one of the best gifts I can give to her!

Very grateful for the hard working women in my life that have demonstrated this for me. They provided me with an ever evolving goal to strive for and the confidence in myself to make it happen. Thank you!”



Ola Olude-Afolabi
AI Program Manager & Visionary, U.S. Department of Commerce
Industry: Technology

“I feel accomplished to know that I am a role model to my daughters.”






Chantell Preston
CEO & Founder, Preston Partners
Industry: Entrepreneurship, Healthcare

“Watching my confident daughter growing up knowing and believing she can accomplish and be anything she wants to be by working hard, being compassionate, and staying committed to her own values.

I think it is very important to make sure our children understand that their own unique characteristics are what can make them amazing leaders, mentors and advocates. Building confidence in our children at a young age by encouraging them to be involved is very important.”



Chanda Allen-Baffoe
Executive Director, Pratt & Whitney
Industry: Aerospace

“Being a role model for my son as an engaged, present parent and corporate executive, demonstrating that both is possible, not easy but doable. And fiscal provision, knowing that through my hard work and God's grace, my son is off to a great start in life. He is better positioned than I was at his age. I am grateful for the opportunity to elevate the next generation.”



Elizabeth Koehler
Managing Director, Advisor Engagement, BlackRock
Industry: Financial Services

“Setting an example for my children as well as future leaders and parents in business. It's not always easy to balance, but I wouldn't trade the opportunity to be a mom and pursue my career. Both have been incredibly meaningful and rewarding.”



Dr. Sherice J. Nelson
Director of the Prestage Center, Southern University
Industry: Education

“My largest reward is displaying achievement for my Black son outside of the home. Being uncompromising about excellence in all endeavors outside the home, while not neglecting the domestic needs of those in the home, rewrites a narrative that women’s achievements must be predicated on a man.

Being a successful working mother is difficult and requires an appreciation for traditional and non-traditional approaches to motherhood. I salute women who are redefining motherhood while keeping the needs of our children in front of ourselves and the larger society.”



Saundra Kandler
CFO and Wealth Coach, Keller Williams Realty
Industry: Real Estate

“I’m creating a model for my children of following their dreams, working hard, connecting others with opportunities, creating experiences, and building a legacy. It is an honor to share each part of the journey, the successes and the lessons, with my 3 precious children. Recently, I also gained 3 bonus children and it has been a huge blessing to see them grow. I am very proud of the accomplishments in my career, which is another way of leaning into my purpose and building real estate businesses that make an impact in our industry and the community which is quite rewarding. Building forward from living paycheck to paycheck to having the opportunities to have my children involved in sports as well as creating experiences with them and giving back together, has truly been a dream. Another huge benefit of the journey of building my career has been the personal and professional growth that has helped me with skills and knowledge that also help me be a better mother.’



Frances Martin-DiGiuseppe
Founder and Principal Architect, Q4 Architects Inc
Industry: Architecture

“Watching my children grow into successful, well adjusted, happy adults. Knowing I provided the best example for them that I could. While they were young I took a very measured approach to advancement in my career. I insisted that I needed to leave at three every day to pick them up at school. That was one of the best decisions I ever made, even if it meant I was working into the night after they were tucked into bed with a story. Always making time to be at school plays and at their sports games. It’s tiring and there are huge compromises, but it's not forever.

I feel that I attract women to my firm and have a greater retention rate because I have such a realistic view of what it takes to be a mother and an architect. Female architects were few and far between when I started and there were rarely working moms rising up the leadership ladder or launching firms. It occurs much more often now, and I feel I have added to the conversation, just by treating moms based on my own experience. Being an example and a mentor to young women. A piece of wisdom, I involved my children with my working life as much as possible, I let them into my other world. Even though I waited to launch my own firm until my daughter was away at university and my son started high school, I always took them on walks or trips to see architecture and shared my passion fully with them. Today, I continue to share a very close relationship with both my children.

Become a mentor to a working mom. There is no greater joy than to help a young mom struggling to balance both career and motherhood, to make it easier for them than it was for you.”



Carrie Wheeler
Executive Vice President and Chief Operating Officer, Liquid Web
Industry: Technology

“Sharing my successes, lessons learned and dynamics of my role to help shape her future. She is a sophomore in college and has chosen to pursue a business degree so it's amazing to share in her future and her development - extremely rewarding.

My daughter has been an inspiration to me and I could not be more proud to be her mother. She's supported me as much as I've supported her and I have a true friend alongside having an amazing daughter.”



Heather Berti
Senior Vice President of People Services, Arlo Hotels
Industry: Hospitality

“Although not a mother, being an aunt to amazing nieces and nephews I want to show them the value of hard work and what you can achieve if you put your mind to it. Moving to New York almost 10 years ago was a dream of mine. To have them see what hard work, determination can result in, gives me the drive to continue my passion.”



Hala Almossawi
Global Health Leader, Self-Employed
Industry: Healthcare

“Making an impact through serving others including my family, and communities across the world. Additional support for working mothers is needed. Advocacy for advancing policies and systems to support working mothers is essential.”



Emilia Huniewicz
Managing Director, CAPITAL TRANSFER AGENCY
Industry: Financial Services

“Showing your kids that anything is possible with hard work and passion.”






Connie Savor Price
Chief Medical Officer, Denver Health
Industry: Healthcare

“Although I don’t always have the quantity of time outside of work available to me, I am grateful for the quality time I am able to spend with my daughters and others I love. I never take that for granted.”




Azra Siddiqi
Director of Tax Policy, AT&T
President for WiseUp TX, AT&T
Industry: Policy & Legal

“Teaching my daughters the importance of independence and the ability to make a difference. Being a mother is the hardest job there is but there is also a sense of accomplishment and fulfillment in achieving my personal and professional goals while also being able to provide for my family. Finally, I love the opportunity to be a role model for my children and show them the value of hard work and perseverance.

I work a full time job and run a nonprofit on the side while being the mother of two daughters. It can be chaotic but I find the work to be rewarding.”



Kelly Ducourty
Chief Customer Officer, UIPath
Industry: Technology

“Working brings me a lot of positive energy to be my best self at home. I find it rewarding to role model for my children what it means to be a working mum and still juggle a household, and how planning and prioritization is key. I find this reflects in the way they see equal opportunities for both men and women and the respect they share for their classmates whether male or female. And of course, being a mother to two gorgeous boys is the most rewarding job of them all.”



Pooja Rahman
Chief Risk Officer, Protective Life Corporation
Industry: Financial Services

“Demonstrating for my two children the importance of resilience, perseverance, and humility. Even though it is from a distance, I allow my children some visibility into my career. I hope they learn that success, however one defines it, will require effort, self-awareness, and iteration.

Like many other women, family is central to my sense of reality. My husband is my biggest and toughest supporter. With him around, giving up on something I want, in favor of something easier, has never been a real option.”



Mary Elizabeth Tillman Barwick
Vice President, Strategic Engagement, Reynolds
Industry: Manufacturing

“It gives me great joy to know that I am able to contribute to our family through work and a full time career. I hope my kids, two daughters and a son, have respect for professional women. I also hope they understand that it isn’t easy so as they grow up and tackle the same issues their parents can help them through it. I have always loved working but I also love being a parent to three amazing kids.

Having it all is a statement that I wish would go away. Working moms don’t have it all. They miss things at both work and home. Often feeling like everyone around them is missing a part of them. I won’t speak for all women, but the balance is a daily struggle. We want to do it all, be at every meeting and ball game but those things aren’t possible. I have a very involved husband and I think that is equally as important for my kids to see. That dad and mom share responsibility for parenting, but that doesn’t make it easy. The weekly review of the schedules can be harsh. But day by day. A trusted group of professional moms is also key to understanding each other. My hope is that my kids see how rewarding and hard work can be but you can’t give up. Stand up for yourself and your family, providing perspective to your work colleagues and your kids.”



Kirsten West Savali
Vice President, Content, iOne Digital
Industry: Media

“I am a widowed mother of three sons. Juggling a high pressure, fast-paced career, while also going through a seismic transition and being a fully present parent is one of the most difficult things I’ve ever done. What I hope I’m modeling for my sons is what a powerful, determined woman can accomplish even in the face of immense grief. My greatest reward is them being as proud of me as I am proud to be their mother. They are my greatest success.”



Gerilyn Horan
Vice President Group Sales & Strategic Accts, Hilton
Industry: Hospitality

“I hope I am providing a role model for women coming up in the business so that you can be a working mother and have a great career. It looks different for each woman, and she needs to figure out the path that is right for her and her family. It may not be a linear path as commitments grow, but there is a time and place for all of your aspirations!

I am the mother of a son who is a recent college graduate who is now in the workforce. I believe his experience of having a working mom will give him respect for the working moms he encounters, and should he rise to leadership he will advocate for women seeking leadership roles. And, I love when he says he's proud of my accomplishments!”



Shana Simmons
Chief Legal Officer, Everlaw, Inc.
Industry: Technology

“Being a mother to my daughter and son has been a rewarding experience in various facets of my life. Through loving and being loved in a way that I have never experienced are at the top of my list, the most rewarding aspect of being a mother has been the reminder that life is about growth and the never-ending cycle of learning. I have always strived for perfection. As a Black woman, I was instilled by my mother with the idea that I did not have the luxury to fail or be mediocre. As a result, I felt like I had to play it safe for parts of my career.

As I have navigated through life, I have learned that in order to grow and learn, we need to challenge ourselves to take on new challenges. This includes being okay with the possibility of failure! My children do and do and do and aren't limited by the failure of failure! Being their mother has served me as a life-lesson and reminder that I, too, have to take on new challenges. It is thanks to them that I have reached new professional plateaus!”



Ronda Conger
Vice President, CBH Homes
Industry: Home Building

“I want to show the way, lead the way, and inspire my children to be better humans. I want to bring them with me on this journey every step of the way. I love sharing our successes as a family as we all learn and grow together.”




Elizabeth Uslander
Co-Founder, CEO and COO, Empowered Endings
Industry: Entrepreneurship, Healthcare

“Inspiring my children to follow their passion, make their dreams come true, and change the world.”





Deidre Johnson
CEO & Executive Director, Center for African American Health
Industry: Healthcare

“As a single mother of two sons who are now both in college and thriving, I am very proud of them and of myself. As a new empty nester, the most rewarding aspect of being a successful working mother has been the ability to model what is possible and to use my leadership position to create opportunities for others and to uplift community voice.

No matter where you find yourself, at the beginning of your career, in transition or considering retirement, release any limiting thoughts or restrictions that others would put upon you. Everything can be transformed. And once we move forward, we likely end up with new possibilities and options that we never imagined. It is important for women to take care of ourselves to stand in our truth and protect and acknowledge our own individual and collective value. When we thrive, our families and communities benefit.”



Clementine Bihiga
Founder, Elevance Health
Industry: Healthcare

“Raising my sons and working allows me to show them that women, just like men, are superheroes! Sometimes you win, sometimes you learn. Losing is never an option!”




Danielle Lammon
Agency Owner, Danielle Shannon Insurance Agency
Industry: Financial Services

“Being a positive influence and example to my children that they can achieve anything by working hard.”





Shawndra Tobias
Vice President - CX, Etech Global Services
Industry: Technology, Contact Center, Outsourcing & Offshoring

“For me, it is the impact that I am creating on my children and knowing that my efforts today will shape my children's future in a positive way. I want my children to see that it is possible to pursue a fulfilling career while also being present for them as a loving and supportive parent. Being a working mother comes with its challenges, but I have never felt the need to sacrifice my career for my family, or vice versa. It is a matter of how good you are at adjusting and setting your priorities. Overall, being a working mother is not easy, but I am determined to create a positive impact on my children's lives by showing them that they can have it all with hard work, dedication, and balance.

I want to tell all the mothers out there that you should believe in your potential and pursue your dreams and ambitions without guilt. You deserve to aim high and have it all! As mothers, we often face societal expectations and pressures that can limit our own beliefs in what we can achieve. But it's important to remember that we are capable of greatness, and our dreams are valid. We deserve to invest in ourselves and pursue our passions, careers, and personal growth with confidence. So, let go of any guilt or self-doubt, and embrace the belief in your own potential. You are capable of achieving incredible things, and you deserve to pursue your dreams with unwavering determination. Keep aiming high, and show the world what you're capable of as a powerful and empowered mother!”



Patti Glass
Vice President, Marketing & Communications, Grosvenor
Industry: Property

“The opportunities and experiences that I get to create for my family.”






Kara Hartl
Founder & CEO, Troy Medical
Industry: Healthcare

“The best choice I ever made as a mother was to go into business for myself. I had the freedom to have my children in my office with me their entire childhood. I schedule times to nurse my babies even during my busiest days. As my children grew, so did my business and I built a daycare center attached to my office. My children were always present and a part of my daily life. Because I was the boss, I made my schedule around their schedule and made every concert, every parent-teacher conference, and every field trip. I ran after-school enrichment clubs with hands-on activities that became my creative expression as well as an unbelievable bonding experience.

What I didn't plan was that our family-focused culture drew the most amazing people to the business. From our nanny, who became family and our bonus grandma to this day, to every member of my staff that understood that family came first, mine and theirs. This fostered unbelievable loyalty that I never planned. Because I put my emphasis on what mattered most in life and treated my staff with the same respect, the culture of my office was extraordinary. I recently made an incredible exit from my first company and have launched my second company, Troy Medical, which gives me even more freedom as my children continue to grow. After being a doctor in my own clinic, I am now just the CEO and have the flexibility to work any hours, from anywhere.”



Yvonna Stevens
Chief Financial Officer & Executive Vice President, International Youth Foundation
Industry: Global Non-profit

“Being able to achieve and thrive in both my career and as an actively engaged single mother for my two sons.”